Log for #mozilla: 2004-02-10 ---------------------------- 00:52 < fantasai> bernd? 00:52 < bernd> hi 00:53 * bz watches the tables task force gather 00:53 -!- MrMazda [~chatzilla@B2a-CommercialWay-Brooksville-24.ij.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.59 [Mozilla rv:1.7a/20040207]] 00:54 <@bz> http://www.editions-eyrolles.com/livres/glazman/tests/listes/listes15.htm 00:55 < fantasai> bernd: in 229883, you cleaned up some of the bc functions 00:55 < fantasai> bernd: but I still don't know what to do about the calcdominantborder calls I make in 4510 00:55 <@bz> Does someone here have a system with not enough fonts? 00:56 < fantasai> bernd: the ones I marked //xxxfr why true? 00:56 < luser> probably will in a minute, my fresh debian system 00:56 < fantasai> bernd: I did that because I didn't know what the boolean arguments meant 00:56 <@bz> fantasai: bernd's patch documents them a bit better, too... 00:56 < fantasai> bz: yeah, I've been looking at it :) 00:56 < bsmedberg> bz: I get some ?? on my win32 box 00:57 <@bz> bsmedberg: ok 00:57 < fantasai> I remember finding a lot of problems with that test suite 00:57 <@bz> bsmedberg: see bug 14713 00:57 * fantasai wonders if glazou fixed them 00:57 <@bz> bsmedberg: opinions? 00:57 <@bz> fantasai: that test renders perfectly over here.... so I can't test the bug filed on what happens when it doesn't 00:58 < bsmedberg> bz: hrm... good question. This only affects ordered lists, right? 00:58 <@bz> yeah 00:58 < fantasai> bz: oh, I meant the suite in general, not that specific test 00:58 <@bz> with bizarre list-style-type 00:58 < bsmedberg> bz: other than ?, the only other fallback I can see would be arabic 00:58 <@bz> fantasai: I understood. ;) 00:58 <@bz> bsmedberg: exactly. 00:59 < fantasai> if it's the one I remember, that is... 00:59 <@bz> bsmedberg: the question is whether that's something worth attempting to do 00:59 < bsmedberg> bz: I'm not a spec-God, but I don't think our current solution is all that bad 00:59 <@bz> bsmedberg: it's not a spec question but a user-experience question. ;) 00:59 < bsmedberg> RESOLVED GOODENOUGH 00:59 * bz notes that the spec assumes all chars will render 00:59 < bernd> fantasai: I added the revised patch to the bug, but it still lacks testing that I didnt regress something 01:00 -!- Hendikins|DomesticatedWolfox is now known as Hendikins 01:01 < bernd> fantasai: but it is better documented what the function arguments are 01:01 -!- Wolf [~Wolf@clt56-112-096.carolina.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.58p [Mozilla rv:1.7a/20040131]] 01:02 < fantasai> bernd: I'm looking at the documentation for static BCCellBorder CalcDom.. 01:02 < fantasai> bernd: your sentence, I mean 01:02 < fantasai> bernd: I can't make sense of it 01:02 < fantasai> "At the table edges..." 01:02 < fantasai> that one 01:02 <@bz> that's a review comment. ;) 01:03 -!- fire_fire [ffdsfds@FSH200159.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #mozilla 01:03 < fantasai> bz: heh 01:03 < fantasai> bz: except I need to make sense of it soon ;) 01:04 < fantasai> bernd, bz: btw, I have most of the changes to nsTablePainter done 01:04 < fantasai> I can put them up tonight 01:04 < bernd> fantasai: At the table edges the rules should be ignored as they are only inner borders. (the period is missing in the comment) 01:04 < fantasai> what rules? 01:04 < bernd> these html thingies 01:04 < fantasai> 'rule'? 01:05 < fantasai> the attribute? 01:05 < bernd> yep 01:05 < bernd> yeah 01:05 < fantasai> ok.. why is that handled here? 01:05 < fantasai> shouldn't it be in ua.css? 01:05 <@bz> fantasai: I meant, I am adding "make fantasai happy with comments" to my review comments 01:05 <@bz> not quite 01:05 <@bz> because there is no good way to handle it in ua.css.... 01:06 < bernd> fantasai: it will not work the border depends on the position of the cell 01:06 <@bz> rules="cols" eg 01:06 < fantasai> .... 01:06 -!- lucifer_ [~lucifer@pcp02797998pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net] has joined #mozilla 01:06 < fantasai> I'm quite sure I wrote up the CSS for that years ago 01:06 * bernd says only one number 915 01:06 < lucifer_> is there a way to make moz read from stdin? 01:07 < fantasai> bernd: it should have nothing to do with 915 01:07 < fantasai> bernd: 915 deals with non-CSS behavior 01:07 < fantasai> bernd: this is CSS-describable behavior, if I'm not mistaken 01:07 * fantasai goes to dig up old comments 01:08 < bernd> fantasai: as the borders depend from the position of the cell in the cellmap the underlaying problem of bug 915 hits you 01:08 < bernd> hixie did a good write up of the architecture problem somewhere 01:08 < fantasai> bernd: why does it depend on the position of the cell in the cellmap? 01:09 < lindi-> lucifer_: date | mozilla /dev/stdin works here 01:09 -!- yason [~yason@addr-212-50-149-209.suomi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 365 seconds] 01:09 < fantasai> http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=10217&action=view 01:09 < bernd> fantasai: how do you decide that a cell belongs to a column via the cellmap 01:09 <@bz> lucifer_: and do what with it? 01:10 < fantasai> bernd: how is "rules=cols" different from 01:10 < lucifer_> bz: open a page 01:10 < fantasai> col {border: 1px solid} 01:10 < fantasai> ? 01:10 <@bz> lucifer_: where? 01:10 <@bz> lucifer_: what if mozilla is already running? 01:10 < lucifer_> bz: yes 01:10 < lucifer_> lindi-: thats a good idea 01:10 <@bz> lucifer_: that wasn't a yes-or-no question..... 01:12 < lucifer_> bz: what if? 01:13 < ajschult> lucifer_: yes 01:13 < lucifer_> lindi-: doesn't show anything 01:13 < bernd> fantasai: do you have an understanding how much code we could remove with http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=10217&action=view ? 01:14 <@bz> lucifer_: what should mozilla do if it's already running and you do 'foo | mozilla'? 01:14 < fantasai> bernd: no 01:14 < lucifer_> bz: i dunno 01:14 < bernd> fantasai: > 500 01:14 < fantasai> bernd: I thought that we /did/ remove that code 01:15 < fantasai> bernd: Do you mean to say we've got a ton of rule/frame code tangled into BC because no-one paid attention to that attachment three years ago?! 01:15 <@bz> lucifer_: well, that's the problem with implementing it. Have to decide what to do in various cases like that. 01:15 < bernd> fantasai: exactly 01:15 < fantasai> aaahhh!!!! 01:16 < bernd> http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/content/html/style/src/nsHTMLStyleSheet.cpp#214 01:16 < fantasai> this is so .. exasperating 01:16 < lucifer_> bz: its a one time thing, its not for an app 01:16 < lucifer_> bz: i just want to pipe some dynamic text to mozilla 01:16 < bernd> especially: http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/content/html/style/src/nsHTMLStyleSheet.cpp#247 01:17 <@bz> lucifer_: mozilla 'data:text/html,whatever` 01:18 <@bz> er, forward quotes 01:18 -!- Sander [~abuse@203.97.90.154] has joined #mozilla 01:18 <@bz> can basically prepend 'data:text/html,' and use backquotes on the program output.... 01:18 < fantasai> bernd: the one problem is with the cascade 01:18 < fantasai> bernd: the rules need to exist at the HTML preshint level 01:18 -!- Kovu [~chatzilla@pcp983794pcs.northw01.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 365 seconds] 01:19 < fantasai> and we don't have a CSS stylesheet for that 01:19 < fantasai> just that class 01:19 <@bz> how would you tell? 01:19 <@bz> wait. 01:19 <@bz> So I guess the point is that interaction with user rules is what worries us? 01:20 < fantasai> yeah 01:20 <@bz> We have several options 01:20 <@bz> 1) ignore the problem 01:20 < fantasai> if we had a preshint level, I wouldn't have gotten into so many arguments with hixie and dbaron over it, I'm sure 01:20 < bernd> sounds like a decent option 01:20 <@bz> It's already questionable that is a ua-level thing while is a preshint 01:21 <@bz> 2) Implement a stylesheet that mozilla loads like ua.css but cascades at the document level right before the attribute stylesheet 01:21 < fantasai> that's what I've been arguing the whole time 01:21 <@dbaron> Adding a preshint level would be easy. 01:21 * bernd would like to remove all of that rule handling 01:21 -!- yason [~yason@addr-212-50-149-209.suomi.net] has joined #mozilla 01:21 <@bz> Like dbaron said, #2 is pretty easy 01:21 < bernd> from the c++ 01:21 <@bz> especially with bryner's nsStyleSet changes 01:21 < fantasai> I say we do #1 first 01:21 <@dbaron> bernd: but note that adding rules like those can slow things down 01:22 < fantasai> and then do #2 01:22 <@bz> We've been doing #1 for .... 01:22 <@dbaron> and it's also worth noting that the current rules code is much messier than it should be and broken in many many ways 01:22 < fantasai> dbaron: the rules would be much simpler with BC 01:22 * bz checks the filing date on bug 2942 01:22 <@dbaron> and is nowhere close to the preshint level 01:22 <@bz> 1999-02-04 21:06 PST 01:22 < fantasai> dbaron: those were written before BC 01:22 < fantasai> uhhh 01:22 < fantasai> before border collapse rewrite 01:23 <@dbaron> we've done BC for a long time 01:23 <@dbaron> see bug 3000 01:23 < fantasai> it was disabled for a good while while karnaze rewrote it 01:23 < bernd> it was enabled with bug arounf 41900 01:23 < fantasai> and /that/ was when I wrote that attachment 01:24 < fantasai> like, the first year I had a Bugzilla account... 01:24 < fantasai> ok, ok 01:24 < fantasai> so 01:24 < fantasai> we have several things to deal with 01:24 < fantasai> a) 4510 01:24 < fantasai> b) Bernd's BC reorg 01:25 < fantasai> c) getting all that rules complexity into some CSS 01:25 < bernd> the bc checkin was on Feb 19 2002 01:25 < fantasai> bernd, do you want to reopen 43178? 01:26 < bernd> fantasai: its not a reorg its just a little bit easier to read 01:27 < bernd> fantasai: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43178#c1 :-) 01:27 < fantasai> bernd: you're the one who named the patch "reorg" ;) 01:27 < fantasai> bernd: *grin* 01:27 < bernd> it reorgs a little part of 2300 lines of code 01:27 < fantasai> yeah 01:28 < bernd> fantasai: does bug 4510 depend on the rules issue ? 01:29 < fantasai> bernd: it's affected by it 01:29 -!- lordpixel is now known as lp_sleep 01:29 < fantasai> bernd: because of the calcdominantborder calls 01:30 < fantasai> which you wanted to reorganize 01:30 < fantasai> and whose reorganization, I'm guessing, will now depend on the rules issue 01:30 < fantasai> 4510 could go in without the reorg 01:30 < fantasai> the calls it makes don't affect BC, just the data I'm stashing to use for background painting 01:31 -!- ssieb_home [~ssieb_hom@24.80.50.208] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.59 [Mozilla rv:1.7a/20040201]] 01:31 -!- ajschult [~ajschult@martin.che.ncsu.edu] has quit [Quit: no reason] 01:31 < bernd> then go ahead with your patch, adapting your patch to the "reorg" is a nobrainer 01:31 < fantasai> ok 01:32 -!- ssieb_home [~ssieb_hom@24.80.50.208] has joined #mozilla 01:33 < fantasai> bernd: do you want to reopen 43178 or should I? 01:33 < bernd> dbaron: your margin testcase is good enough, the table should not overflow period 01:33 -!- Dauphin [~chatzilla@ip68-6-227-247.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.59 [Mozilla rv:1.7a/20040208]] 01:33 -!- kherron [~kherron@c-24-7-164-81.client.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33 < bernd> fantasai: its your idea, so please reopen it 01:34 -!- Dauphin [~cls@ip68-6-227-247.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #mozilla 01:34 < bernd> fantasai: do you know why the col group case does not work 01:35 -!- caillon_work [caillon@gw.office.mozilla.org] has quit [Quit: Faith in Chaos] 01:35 < fantasai> bernd: bernd@gmx.de? 01:35 < fantasai> bernd_mozilla, right? 01:35 < bernd> bernd_mozilla@gmx.de 01:35 < fantasai> bz: do you want to be CCed, too, while I'm at it? 01:36 * dbaron realizes we should probably make scrollbars switch sides on RTL documents 01:36 <@dbaron> I think I've argued against that in the past, though. 01:37 < fantasai> dbaron: yes, it's inconsistent 01:37 < fantasai> bernd: groups doesn't work because I didn't design for BC 01:38 <@dbaron> the problem is that for RTL documents, we want the bottom scrollbars to allow scrolling left but not right, and that doesn't fit with a vertical scrollbar on the right 01:38 < fantasai> ? 01:38 < fantasai> bernd: all the borders there are assigned on the cells 01:39 < fantasai> bernd: but with BC, we can just assign on , etc. 01:40 < fantasai> dbaron: imagine an Arabic + English document 01:40 < fantasai> dbaron: the scrollbars would be on both sides 01:40 <@dbaron> fantasai: I just can't imagine any good UI for having a horizontal scrollbar that allows scrolling to both sides of the initial position. 01:41 <@dbaron> fantasai: the type of scrollbars would be determined by the direction of the root element 01:41 < fantasai> dbaron: if I have two very wide tables in my document 01:42 < fantasai> dbaron: one rtl 01:42 < fantasai> dbaron: one ltr 01:42 <@dbaron> fantasai: then you'll be no worse off than you are today 01:42 < fantasai> dbaron: do you mean to say you're just going to cut off one of them? 01:42 <@dbaron> fantasai: yes 01:43 <@bz> fantasai: yes, please cc me on anything involving code removal in layout. ;) 01:43 < fantasai> ^o^ 01:44 * dbaron wonders what "^o^" is (other than looking a lot like a symbol for a bat) 01:44 <@bz> mouth wide open with surprise? 01:45 <@bz> eyes slitted up in a dangerous way? 01:45 < fantasai> bz: honestly, I'm not entirely sure what it pictographically represents 01:45 <@dbaron> it still looks like a bat to me 01:45 < fantasai> bz: I know it's usage, though 01:45 -!- basic [~basic@219.95.191.83] has joined #mozilla 01:45 * fantasai picked it up from some artistic friends 01:46 <@bz> looks like diethyl ester, actually 01:46 < fantasai> lol 01:46 <@bz> the "bird of hope" 01:46 < fantasai> it's derived from ^_^ 01:46 * bz has fond memories of organic chemistry 01:46 * fantasai grins 01:46 < fantasai> I'm sure a lot of people don't share the sentiment 01:46 * dbaron thinks diethyl ester requires O rather than o 01:47 <@bz> dbaron: so.... would you be willing to remove the aPresContext argument of GetUniqueStyleData as part of this patch? 01:47 <@dbaron> bz: sure, if I don't need another round of revie 01:48 <@bz> dbaron: I think I can trust you to do it, yes.. ;) 01:49 < fantasai> hmm 01:49 * fantasai thinks the o is a nose 01:49 < fantasai> anyhow 01:50 * fantasai has to draft an email to what will no doubt be a very exasperated CSS WG 01:50 < bernd> fantasai: too late isnt it ? 01:51 < fantasai> bernd: better late than never, ne? 01:51 <@dbaron> nsIPresContext* PresContext() const { return mRuleNode->GetPresContext(); } 01:51 <@dbaron> on nsStyleContext? 01:51 <@dbaron> bz: ok with you? 01:51 <@bz> dbaron: sounds good to me. 01:52 <@bz> fantasai: what're you mailing about? 01:52 < fantasai> bz: tables 01:52 < fantasai> :) 01:52 * fantasai ran into a few things while working on 4510 01:52 <@bz> heh 01:53 <@dbaron> bz: new patch attached, if you want to see it 01:54 <@bz> dbaron: thanks 01:55 <@bz> dbaron: looks great 01:56 <@bz> argh 01:56 <@bz> the testcase in that rules bug doesn't provide the css for rules=groups.... 01:56 < fantasai> bz: the CSS would need to be rewritten 01:56 < fantasai> bz: so it takes advantage of the BC model 01:56 < fantasai> bz: you can'd do groups without BC 01:56 -!- Hendy [~wolfox@DC-136-132.bpb.bigpond.com] has joined #mozilla 01:56 < fantasai> bz: it would be 01:57 <@bz> hmm 01:57 < fantasai> thead, tbody, tfoot, colgroup {border: 1px solid} 01:57 < fantasai> or somesuch 01:57 < fantasai> with a table[rules=groups] > 01:57 <@bz> with rules=cols, shouldn't the rules be on colgroup boundaries? 01:57 < fantasai> of course 01:57 <@bz> not on column boundaries? 01:57 <@bz> or am I confused? 01:57 < fantasai> confused, methinks :) 01:57 < fantasai> it's analogous to rows 01:57 * bz checks 01:57 < fantasai> yeah, that one would be changed to 01:58 < fantasai> table[rules=cols] col {border: 1px solid} 01:58 < fantasai> i think 01:58 <@bz> oh, I see 01:58 < fantasai> in any case, it needs a revision 01:58 <@bz> you can't do just col groups 01:58 <@bz> fantasai: there is no "col" in there.... 01:58 <@bz> fantasai: is there? 01:58 < fantasai> hmm 01:58 <@bz> fantasai: nothing to match that CSS rule 01:59 < fantasai> yeah, I guess you'd have to do it the same as I did :) 01:59 <@bz> we stick in a tbody 01:59 <@bz> in HTML 01:59 <@bz> but.... 01:59 -!- Tukon [~Tukon@adsl-64-161-201-181.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59 <@bz> so does setting border on colgroup work? 01:59 <@bz> or rowgroup? 01:59 < fantasai> yep 01:59 < fantasai> oh, we do it better than any other browser i'm aware of 01:59 <@bz> s/rowgroup/tbody/ 02:00 <@bz> so rules=groups should work, no? 02:00 < fantasai> Part C of my backgrounds test suite is a nice demonstration 02:00 < fantasai> IE chokes on it 02:00 < fantasai> yes 02:00 <@bz> although.... 02:00 <@bz> 02:00 -!- kerz [kerz@craptastic.org] has quit [] 02:00 <@bz> 02:00 * bz thinks 02:00 <@bz> so 02:00 -!- Hendikins [~wolfox@DC-129-223.bpb.bigpond.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 365 seconds] 02:01 < fantasai> bz: not allowed 02:01 <@bz> it's not? 02:01 < fantasai> bz: no 02:01 < fantasai> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.1 02:01 -!- Ganesh [~Ganesh@203.145.156.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 365 seconds] 02:01 <@bz> ah, indeed 02:01 <@bz> good 02:02 <@bz> So what should rules=groups do if there are no colgroups? 02:02 < fantasai> then there's no group for it to delineate, now is there? 02:03 < lindi-> lucifer_: well, it works here 02:03 <@bz> so 02:03 <@bz> table[rules=groups] > colgroup { border-left: 1px solid; border-right: 1px solid } 02:04 <@bz> table[rules=groups] > thead, table[rules=groups] > tfoot, table[rules=groups] > tbody { border-top: 1px solid; border-bottom: 1px solid } 02:04 * bz tries that 02:04 < bernd> bz: use myrules 02:04 <@bz> sure 02:04 * bz is using bernd's testcase anyway 02:05 < bernd> its fantasai's 02:05 < fantasai> :) 02:06 <@bz> why didn't people put this css in the testcase so we can see _how_ it doesn't work? ;) 02:06 <@bz> hrm 02:06 <@bz> it doesn't paint anything 02:06 <@bz> known issue? 02:06 <@bz> oh, wait 02:06 <@bz> border-collapse 02:06 <@bz> worksforme 02:06 <@bz> can we check it in? ;) 02:07 <@bz> Note that border with a given value setting the width in px is trivial 02:07 < fantasai> check what in? 02:08 < fantasai> and put what css in what testcase? 02:08 <@bz> the rules in http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=10217&action=view 02:08 * bz backs up 02:08 <@bz> I am looking at http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=10217&action=view 02:08 < fantasai> ok 02:08 <@bz> it has this nice comment 02:08 <@bz> /* Groups don't work */ 02:08 < fantasai> oh 02:08 -!- dcmwai [~dcmwai@219.95.155.153] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 02:08 <@bz> and no css that would demonstrate an attempt to make them work 02:09 < fantasai> bz: I'm not entirely sure why 02:09 < fantasai> bz: but the rest of the test case sets everything on the cells 02:09 <@bz> table[myrules=groups] { border-collapse: collapse } 02:09 <@bz> table[myrules=groups] > colgroup { 02:09 <@bz> border-left: 1px solid; 02:09 <@bz> border-right: 1px solid 02:09 <@bz> } 02:09 <@bz> table[myrules=groups] > thead, 02:09 <@bz> table[myrules=groups] > tfoot, 02:09 <@bz> table[myrules=groups] > tbody { 02:09 <@bz> border-top: 1px solid; 02:09 <@bz> border-bottom: 1px solid 02:09 <@bz> } 02:09 <@dbaron> doesn't rules=groups mean between and not outside the groups? 02:10 <@bz> not clear... 02:10 < fantasai> dbaron: that's why we have 'hidden' 02:10 <@bz> but that could be done too 02:10 -!- jst_ [~jst@adsl-64-175-237-19.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net] has joined #mozilla 02:10 -!- mode/#mozilla [+o jst_] by killer 02:10 <@dbaron> fantasai: ah, right 02:10 < fantasai> :) 02:10 <@bz> yeah, this is between 02:10 <@dbaron> fantasai: but you need to make sure frame= overrides 02:10 < fantasai> dbaron: that part of the CSS is further down 02:10 <@dbaron> watch specificities 02:10 * bernd hears the smashing sound of http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/search?string=aIgnoreIfrules going away 02:10 < fantasai> dbaron: irrelevant 02:10 < fantasai> table {border: hidden} 02:11 < fantasai> none of the others set a border on the table 02:11 <@dbaron> frame=border doesn't? 02:11 < fantasai> and specificities don't determine how borders collapse 02:11 < fantasai> dbaron: if you have frame=border and rules=groups 02:11 * dbaron wonders how frame=border works, then 02:11 <@bz> this is the thing 02:11 < fantasai> then you have borders between groups 02:11 -!- Hendy is now known as Hendikins 02:11 < fantasai> and around the table 02:11 <@bz> I'm reading the HTML spec 02:12 <@dbaron> fantasai: but you've got to be careful of specificity and/or order with the border-style: hidden 02:12 <@bz> groups: Rules will appear between row groups (see THEAD, TFOOT, and TBODY) and column groups (see COLGROUP and COL) only. 02:12 <@dbaron> fantasai: so that the border from the frame=border beats it 02:12 < fantasai> dbaron: the only "hidden" you'd need is on
02:12 < fantasai> dbaron: and frame=border would cause something solid to go on the table 02:12 * bz senses we need a testcase suite here and a clear spec of what the behavior is 02:12 <@dbaron> fantasai: I know. 02:13 <@dbaron> fantasai: but you have to have the frame=border rule after the rules=groups rule 02:13 <@dbaron> fantasai: and you have to be careful of not adding specificity in weird ways 02:13 -!- ajschult [~ajschult@user-37ka01u.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #mozilla 02:14 <@dbaron> fantasai: e.g., table[frame=border] { border-style: solid; } table[rules=groups] { border-style: hidden; } wouldn't work 02:14 <@bz> hmm 02:14 < fantasai> dbaron: I wouldn't do that 02:14 <@dbaron> then again, you probably already know all that 02:15 < fantasai> hehehehe 02:15 -!- berkut [~chatzilla@c-24-20-211-90.client.comcast.net] has joined #mozilla 02:15 -!- jst [~jst@adsl-64-175-237-19.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 365 seconds] 02:15 <@bz> come to think of it.... 02:15 <@bz> table[myrules=groups] > colgroup + colgroup { 02:15 <@bz> border-left: 1px solid; 02:15 <@bz> } 02:15 <@bz> That may be better 02:15 <@bz> doesn't put a left border on the first colgroup or a right border on the last one 02:15 < fantasai> nice 02:16 <@dbaron> bz: what about 02:16 <@dbaron> or is that illegal? 02:16 <@bz> dbaron: not valid. ;) 02:16 <@bz> dbaron: I asked that about 10 mins ago 02:16 <@dbaron> but it's legal in CSS? 02:16 <@dbaron> I guess that doesn't matter, though. 02:16 <@bz> right 02:16 * fantasai girins 02:16 < fantasai> s/gi/g/ 02:17 < fantasai> happy perl syntax~ 02:17 <@bz> so here is a question 02:17 * dbaron wonders if we'd be better off with scoped stylesheets for these things 02:17 <@bz> if I only have a thead, I shouldn't do rules, right? ;) 02:17 < fantasai> you wouldn't need to 02:17 < fantasai> dbaron: I don't know what exactly you mean, but this all needs to be overridable by the author's CSS 02:18 <@bz> btw, should we support stuff like ? 02:18 <@bz> note the ordering 02:18 < fantasai> dbaron: I filed a bug on that when we we'd hard-coded it like that 02:18 < fantasai> dbaron: wouldn't want to regress ;) 02:18 <@dbaron> fantasai: table[rules=groups] { -moz-stylesheet: url(rules-groups.css); } 02:18 < fantasai> dbaron: why? 02:18 <@dbaron> (XBL can already do that, but we could add something so you don't need to go through XBL, perhaps) 02:18 <@dbaron> performance 02:18 <@bz> yeah... 02:19 <@bz> if we have rules that set borders on td, that may hurt 02:19 <@bz> even with '>' combinators 02:19 <@dbaron> we also need to unbreak :root/:-moz-bound-element for scoped stylesheets 02:19 * bz can see us getting to scoped inline styles soon. ;) 02:19 < bernd> dbaron: so it would load the stylesheet only when rules=groups 02:19 <@dbaron> and probably remove :-moz-bound-element in favor of :root 02:19 <@dbaron> bernd: yes 02:20 <@bz> so _should_ we support ? 02:20 < fantasai> bz: iirc, it's illegal 02:20 <@bz> yes 02:20 <@bz> that's not my question 02:20 < bernd> fantasai: why its illegal? 02:20 <@bz> bernd: per html 02:20 <@dbaron> content model of (tr)+ ? 02:21 <@dbaron> not (tr)* 02:21 < fantasai> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.1 02:21 <@bz> bernd: the order is + 02:21 < bernd> great than I can invalidate that nasty bc bug :-) 02:21 <@dbaron> oh, I was thinking of something else 02:21 <@bz> eh? 02:21 <@bz> thing is, we _do_ support the broken syntax to some extent 02:21 <@bz> going to some pains to do it, even 02:21 < bernd> bc borders fail when a empty rowgroup is inbetween 02:21 <@dbaron> empty rowgroups are illegal too 02:22 <@dbaron> that's what I was thinking the previous question was 02:22 <@dbaron> I think they should be legal, but... 02:22 * dbaron should probably go back to reviewing code 02:23 <@bz> and we want this to work with XHTML 02:23 <@bz> where tbody is optional.... 02:23 -!- kerz [asdf@gw.office.mozilla.org] has joined #mozilla 02:23 <@bz> but TFOOT could still happen? 02:23 * bz cries 02:24 <@bz> Rather than require document authors to insert extraneous elements, XHTML has made the elements optional. User agents need to adapt to this accordingly. 02:24 * bz flips the XHTML spec authors the bird 02:25 <@bz> ok 02:25 * fantasai consoles bz 02:25 <@bz> so realistically, no one will use a tfoot without a tbody, right? ;) 02:25 <@bz> so.... 02:25 < fantasai> bz: what's the content mode, exactly? 02:25 < bernd> bz: hixie will 02:25 < fantasai> *model 02:25 -!- berkut [~chatzilla@c-24-20-211-90.client.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.59 [Mozilla rv:1.7a/20040208]] 02:25 < fantasai> bernd: lol 02:26 <@bz> table[myrules=groups] { border-collapse: collapse } 02:26 <@bz> table[myrules=groups] > colgroup + colgroup { 02:26 <@bz> border-left: 1px solid; 02:26 <@bz> } 02:26 <@bz> table[myrules=groups] > tfoot, table[myrules=groups] > tbody + tbody { 02:26 <@bz> border-top: 1px solid; 02:26 <@bz> } 02:26 <@bz> table[myrules=groups] > thead { 02:26 <@bz> border-bottom: 1px solid; 02:26 <@bz> } 02:26 <@bz> fantasai: content mode? 02:27 < fantasai> model 02:27 < fantasai> for XHTML
02:27 <@bz> oh 02:27 <@bz> well.... 02:27 < fantasai> btw, you don't need that second rule set 02:27 <@dbaron> as long as both thead and tfoot have borders, you don't need the border from the omitted tbbody 02:27 <@bz> I don't? 02:27 <@bz> you can have multiple tbodies..... 02:27 <@dbaron> not when they're omitted 02:27 <@bz> sure 02:28 <@bz> but I can't be sure it's omitted.... 02:28 <@dbaron> why does it matter? 02:28 <@bz> I was trying to get the case when there is no thead or tbody and only a tfoot right 02:28 <@dbaron> as long as thead has a bottom border, tfoot has a top border, and tbody has both borders, you're OK for rules=groups 02:28 <@bz> it should have no border 02:28 <@bz> with those rules it has a top border 02:28 <@dbaron> why should the tfoot have no border? 02:28 <@bz> oh 02:28 <@bz> heh 02:28 <@bz> well, I was going on the "rules between groups" interpretation 02:29 <@bz> is it wrong? 02:29 < fantasai> no, it's right 02:29 <@dbaron> consider it an implied group when tbody is omitted 02:29 < fantasai> but, bz, if it's making things complicated 02:29 <@bz> ah, heh 02:29 < fantasai> you can use hidden on the table 02:29 <@bz> no, it's not 02:29 <@bz> those rules right there do it 02:29 < fantasai> and it will be just as correct per HTML 02:29 <@bz> assuming we "consider it an implied group when tbody is omitted" 02:29 <@bz> which we should, imo 02:29 <@bz> it makes sense to me 02:29 <@bz> ;) 02:29 * fantasai goes to dig up XHTML 02:29 <@bz> it's useless 02:29 <@bz> don't bother 02:30 <@bz> they basically say that any time you have a tag where start and end are both optional in HTML, the XHTML version the whole tag is optional 02:30 <@bz> and may not appear in the DOM 02:30 <@bz> oops 02:30 <@dbaron> bz: no, just tbody, not body, head, or html. :-) 02:30 <@bz> really? 02:30 <@bz> argh 02:30 <@dbaron> head is not optional in XHTML 02:31 <@bz> Also, some XHTML elements may or may not appear in the object tree because they are optional in the content model (e.g. the tbody element within table). This occurs because in HTML 4 some elements were permitted to be minimized such that their start and en 02:31 <@dbaron> what else had both tags omissible? 02:31 <@bz> d tags are both omitted (an SGML feature). 02:31 < fantasai> bz: that's a stupid content model 02:31 < fantasai> bz: they could have done better 02:31 <@bz> fantasai: YES. ;) 02:31 < fantasai> bz: if they'd just thought about it 02:31 <@bz> dbaron: nothing I can think of..... 02:31 * fantasai rearranges it 02:31 <@dbaron> fantasai: which is a stupid content model? 02:31 <@bz> fantasai: "if" 02:31 < fantasai>
02:31 <@bz> ok 02:31 * dbaron would have prevented no-TBODY with thead/tfoot, at least 02:31 < fantasai> right now it's (caption?, (col*|colgroup*), thead?, tfoot?, (tbody+|tr+)) 02:32 * bz goes to attach his rules to the bug 02:32 <@bz> yes 02:32 <@bz> that's correct 02:32 < fantasai> it should be (caption?, (col*|colgroup*), ((thead?, tfoot?, tbody+)|tr+)) 02:32 <@bz> "* dbaron would have prevented no-TBODY with thead/tfoot, at least" 02:33 < bernd> bz: there is already a testcase list for bc http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=63256&action=view 02:33 < fantasai> bz: when you're finished having fun with CSS rules, post them in the bug? :) 02:33 <@bz> fantasai: so I will add these rules to http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=10217&action=view and attach to bug 43178 ? 02:34 * bz was too slow at getting bug numbers 02:34 < fantasai> yeah, go ahead 02:34 < fantasai> hmm, 2:32am 02:34 <@bz> we need testcases not for bc but for these attr values specifically 02:34 <@bz> in various combinations 02:34 < fantasai> I hope this excitement keeps me awake for much longer ^^;; 02:35 <@bz> heh 02:35 < fantasai> run a google search ;) 02:35 <@bz> well, I'll post testcase in a sec 02:35 -!- fire_fire [ffdsfds@FSH200159.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [] 02:35 * bernd needs to go earn some money 02:35 < fantasai> wonder if I have some lying around.. 02:35 -!- bernd [~chatzilla@pD9EB11FA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.59 [Mozilla rv:1.7a/20040202]] 02:37 < fantasai> don't see any 02:37 -!- lucifer_ [~lucifer@pcp02797998pcs.goosck01.sc.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 02:39 <@bz> sorry; taking a min to clean up this stylesheet a bit 02:41 <@bz> should I roll "frame" in here too? 02:42 -!- jshin [~chatzilla@218.158.75.152] has joined #mozilla 02:43 < fantasai> bz: yeah 02:43 * fantasai finishes part 1 of the email 02:44 < fantasai> no multicolumn columns, thanks 02:44 <@bz> I'm gonna go with hidden borders on table, actually 02:44 < fantasai> bz: makes things cleaner :) 02:45 <@bz> yeah 02:45 -!- botbot [~pid-7897@bah.mozillazine.org] has quit [Quit: I was told to shutdown by kerz. :-(] 02:45 < jshin> bz: Hi, i've got a question about string... 02:45 * bz realized that '+' uses indexof, which is not quick 02:45 <@bz> hey jshin 02:45 < fantasai> bz: one of the other things I wish I'd followed up on more closely is altss switching 02:45 < jshin> bz: hi ! i'm wondering if repeated use of getter_Copies on a single nsXPIDLString leaks .. 02:45 -!- kravi [~kravi@202.144.86.147] has joined #mozilla 02:47 <@bz> so here is a question 02:47 <@bz> jshin: it shouldn't 02:47 <@bz> fantasai: if I have rules=cols, say 02:48 <@bz> actually, nevermind 02:48 * bz goes back to what he was doing 02:48 < jshin> bz: so, I can safely use patterns like : method1(getter_Copies(xpidlstr)); method2(getter_Copies(xpidlstr)), right? 02:48 <@bz> hmm 02:48 <@bz> no, this is a question 02:48 <@bz> jshi: yep 02:49 <@bz> say my user stylesheet has td { border-top: 1px solid red } 02:49 <@bz> and a page has table groups=cols 02:49 < jshin> bz: thx ! 02:49 <@bz> should those cells have a red top border? 02:51 < fantasai> bz: probably 02:51 <@bz> ok 02:51 < fantasai> bz: but, I don't think it's important enough for you to avoid hidden 02:51 <@bz> well, no 02:51 <@bz> I was just asking whether groups=cols should explicitly set top/bottom borders. ;) 02:52 < fantasai> heh 02:52 < fantasai> I think it should do the minimum 02:52 <@bz> ok 02:52 <@bz> makes sense 02:52 < fantasai> of what it needs to do 02:52 <@bz> btw, in border-collapse mode 02:52 < fantasai> yes? 02:52 <@bz> a border of "none" will override things, right? 02:52 <@bz> or no? 02:52 < fantasai> no 02:52 < fantasai> "hidden" 02:52 < fantasai> will override tings 02:52 < fantasai> things 02:53 <@bz> ok 02:53 < fantasai> bz: are you having fun with this? :) 02:54 -!- dmose [~dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mozilla 02:54 -!- mode/#mozilla [+o dmose] by killer 02:54 -!- JustinArthur [~JustinArt@pool-141-152-69-120.roa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Tired.] 02:55 <@dmose> rheeeeet 02:55 < fantasai> greeeetings, sir 02:55 < Dauphin> hey dmose 02:55 <@Pavlov> rheet 02:55 <@dmose> how goes, folks? 02:56 * dmose is laying LDAP smack down 02:58 -!- bb [~bb@dsl-082-082-220-126.arcor-ip.net] has joined #mozilla 02:58 <@bz> fantasai: yes. ;) 02:58 * bz attaches the testcase 02:58 < fantasai> And three browsers vote for 'visibility: collapse'! 02:58 <@bz> we need better coverage, though 02:58 <@bz> dmose: heh 02:59 < fantasai> bz: there was one test case on microsoft's site, linked from the bc list 02:59 < fantasai> bz: it covered everything 02:59 -!- drepper [drepper@cpe-24-221-190-179.ca.sprintbbd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59 < fantasai> but it was scripted 02:59 < fantasai> and the scripting wasn't working for me 02:59 < fantasai> 'twas at the top of the list 02:59 < fantasai> if you want to take a look 02:59 * bz scrolls up 02:59 -!- hewitt [~hewitt@adsl-64-175-36-75.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #mozilla 03:00 * bz downloads that testcase 03:00 <@bz> scripted is good. ;) 03:02 <@bz> oh, the scripting is IE-only 03:02 * bz kicks it 03:03 < fantasai> must be why it didn't work ;) 03:04 < blake> fx 0.8 is out. 03:04 * fantasai , not being much familiar with scripting, doesn't know how easy it would be to adapt it for Moz 03:04 <@bz> I already did 03:04 <@bz> replace-regexp is great. ;) 03:04 < fantasai> ;D 03:05 <@bz> some of these don't work... 03:05 * bz checks why 03:05 < Dauphin> ugh. 03:05 -!- ben [ben@gw.office.mozilla.org] has joined #mozilla 03:05 * Dauphin wonders when Ben forked these firebird installer scripts 03:05 <@bz> first off, our rules for "rows" show gaps between the cells 03:05 < Dauphin> speak of the devil 03:05 <@bz> I wonder why 03:05 <@Pavlov> mmm, fx 03:05 -!- mode/#mozilla [+o ben] by killer 03:05 -!- glazou [~daniel@dyn-195-242-103-97.ppp.tiscali.fr] has joined #mozilla 03:05 < glazou> bonjour 03:05 < fantasai> bz: put it up? 03:05 -!- jshin [~chatzilla@218.158.75.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05 < glazou> ROFL @ http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=217808#c2 03:05 < Dauphin> Ben: how long ago did you fork the firebird installer scripts? 03:05 < fantasai> bonjour 03:05 <@bz> oh... duh 03:06 -!- bryner [bryner@gw.office.mozilla.org] has joined #mozilla 03:06 <@ben> Dauphin: when the files were created. 03:06 < glazou> hi bz fantasai 03:06 <@ben> busy with release. back later. 03:06 -!- mode/#mozilla [+o bryner] by killer 03:06 < gisburn> blake: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firebird/releases/0.8/ - where are the binaries ? :) 03:06 <@bz> hey glazou 03:06 <@Pavlov> gisburn: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/0.8 03:06 * Dauphin hrms 03:06 < gisburn> uhm uhm 03:07 < gisburn> WTF is firebox ? 03:07 < gisburn> don't tell me you renamed it again 03:07 <@Pavlov> (; 03:07 < gisburn> s/box/fox/ 03:08 <@bz> hmm 03:08 <@bz> why would row borders not paint?? 03:08 < glazou> hi Pavlov 03:08 <@Pavlov> :-) 03:08 < glazou> ben: congrats on 0.8 :-) 03:09 < fantasai> bz: are the borders dynamically added? 03:09 <@bz> oh, I see why 03:09 <@bz> yes 03:09 * fantasai would hate if that were the problem 03:09 < fantasai> it is? 03:09 <@bz> and we have bugs on not invalidating bc-stuff 03:09 < fantasai> Clearly why it needs a rewrite! 03:09 <@bz> if I switch from rules=none to rules=whatever it works 03:09 <@bz> since it reframes 03:09 <@bz> we have a bug on this already 03:09 <@bz> bernd owns it, iirc 03:10 < fantasai> *darkly* everything about BC indicates that it needs a rewrite 03:10 < fantasai> :) 03:10 * gisburn gets 404 at http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/0.8 03:10 < ajschult> gisburn: it's a mirror. 03:11 <@Pavlov> it'll be up in a few mins 03:11 <@bz> yeah, dynamic stuff has issues 03:11 < fantasai> bz: views also have issues 03:12 < fantasai> views on tables have issues in general 03:12 <@Pavlov> ftp://mozilla.ussg.indiana.edu/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/0.8/ 03:12 <@bz> heh 03:12 < fantasai> bz: I'm getting some extremely wacky painting on one of my testcases 03:12 < fantasai> I know it's not my fault only because it does the same thing when I back out my changes ;) 03:13 -!- patrick [patrick@c-24-6-51-183.client.comcast.net] has left #mozilla [] 03:13 -!- gabrielle is now known as hyatt 03:14 -!- JanSleep is now known as Jan 03:14 < glazou> oh :-) 03:14 < glazou> everybody's on board! 03:14 <@bz>
03:14 <@bz> how should that render? 03:15 <@bz> fantasai: heh 03:15 -!- harshal [~harshal@210.18.23.22.sify.net] has joined #mozilla 03:15 < hyatt> MYRULES? 03:15 < hyatt> wtf is MYRULES? 03:15 < basic> lol 03:15 < fantasai> hyatt: we're testing 03:15 <@bz> hyatt: a way to test a ua.css rules impl without it colliding with our C++ code 03:15 <@bz> so 03:15 < hyatt> ah 03:15 <@bz> should that have a left and right border on the table? 03:15 * hyatt was going to try to impl rules using border-collapsing etc. 03:15 <@bz> that's us 03:16 < fantasai> that's what we're going to do 03:16 <@bz> that's what we wanna do 03:16 < hyatt> oooh, that would be cool. 03:16 <@bz> and then remove some code that thinks it knows what it's doing 03:16 < hyatt> i have no frame/rules impl in safari yet 03:16 < hyatt> but i do have border collapsing supported 03:16 < fantasai> hyatt: we'd have had it three years ago, except karnaze wasn't paying attention 03:16 < fantasai> :P 03:16 <@bz> post-resolve callbacks my ass 03:16 <@bz> fantasai: so does "border" imply "frame=border"? 03:16 <@dbaron> bz: that's what I was saying about not being at the preshint level anyway 03:16 < hyatt> i assume it's ok to set border-collapse: collapse when someone starts specifying rules="rows" and what-not? 03:17 < gisburn> In which branch does firefox sit ? 03:17 < hyatt> that was what i was unsure of 03:17 <@bz> dbaron: heh 03:17 < hyatt> if it was ok to turn the table into a border-collapsing table when rules was specified 03:17 < fantasai> bz: hang on 03:17 <@bz> hyatt: that's our plan. We do it anyway. ;) 03:17 < fantasai> hyatt: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43178 03:18 <@bz> table[frame=box], 03:18 <@bz> table[frame=border], 03:18 <@bz> table[border=""]:not([frame]) { 03:18 <@bz> border: thin outset; 03:18 <@bz> } 03:18 <@bz> seem reasonable? 03:19 < hyatt> mmm, won't that be less efficient than using mapped attributes 03:19 <@bz> perhaps 03:19 <@bz> for now I'm just testing 03:19 * fantasai studies bz's code and html.css 03:20 <@bz> that code is not working for some reason.... 03:20 <@bz> that rule is not applying to my table 03:20 < hyatt> are you in strict mode? 03:20 < hyatt> in your html? 03:20 <@bz> yes 03:20 < hyatt> case-sensitivity 03:20 <@bz> er... 03:20 < hyatt> if you're in strict mode 03:20 <@bz> no, I am not 03:20 <@bz> anyway 03:20 < fantasai> case sensitivity? 03:20 <@bz> [border] applies 03:20 < fantasai> what case sensitivity 03:20 <@bz> [border=""] does not 03:21 < fantasai> ? 03:21 <@bz> odd 03:21 < fantasai> bz 03:21 < fantasai> [border] 03:21 < fantasai> no? 03:21 <@bz> sure 03:21 <@bz> I just wonder why the other doesn't apply... ;) 03:21 < fantasai> what's the HTML? 03:21 -!- drepper [drepper@cpe-24-221-190-179.ca.sprintbbd.net] has joined #mozilla 03:22 <@bz> hrmph 03:22 <@bz> I need "myborder" 03:22 <@bz> since "border" triggers our friggin' html.css 03:22 < fantasai> hyatt: aren't attr=(val1|val2|val3) -type attributes case-insensitive? 03:22 < fantasai> (except in XHTML, when they're lower-case) 03:22 < fantasai> bz: it's not in html.css, it seems 03:23 <@bz> border? 03:23 < fantasai> bz: it's in the preshint ss 03:23 <@bz> it may be in attr mapping too 03:23 <@bz> right 03:23 < fantasai> bz: it has to handle border=3 03:23 < fantasai> which html.css can't do 03:24 <@bz> hrmph 03:24 <@bz> so what should
do? 03:24 <@bz>
sets borders on all the frames.... 03:24 * bz adds :not([rules]) 03:24 < fantasai> bz: groups wins 03:24 < fantasai> because border implies rules=all 03:25 < fantasai> and that's where all those little borders come from 03:25 < fantasai> bz: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html#adef-border-TABLE 03:27 < hyatt> fantasai: they should be case-insensitive always in html docs IMO 03:27 < hyatt> fantasai: but i'm not sure moz does it that way 03:27 < hyatt> i think moz may just use quirks/strict as the trigger 03:27 < hyatt> i know moz uses quirks/strict as the trigger for class/id case-sensitivity 03:27 < hyatt> safari uses quirks/stirct for id/class and html/xml doc as the trigger for attr values/names 03:28 < fantasai> yeah, but those are different datatypes 03:28 < fantasai> CDATA and ID, IIRC 03:28 < hyatt> (at least it does internally, 1.2 is just always case-insensitive in html) 03:28 * hyatt stops babbling. 03:28 < fantasai> hehe 03:28 -!- conan [~conan@dhcp-ams-cam-vl10-144-254-193-239.cisco.com] has joined #mozilla 03:28 * fantasai won't hold it against you 03:28 <@dmose> hyatt: rheeeeeeeeeeet! 03:29 < hyatt> i think it's going to be hard to beat the perf of mapped attributes with stylesheet rules 03:29 < hyatt> for this particular case 03:29 < glazou> bκκκκκκ dmose 03:29 < hyatt> since i think the rules are going to be quite nasty 03:29 <@dmose> hey glazou! 03:29 < hyatt> but hey, i wanted to do it too 03:29 < hyatt> :) 03:29 <@bz> hrmph 03:29 < glazou> hyatt: coming to cannes for ftf ? 03:29 < hyatt> glazou: no, not a chance. 03:29 <@bz>
seems unhappy 03:29 < glazou> hyatt: :-( 03:30 < fantasai> bz: lol 03:30 < hyatt> glazou: apple isn't going to foot the bill for globe-trotting 03:30 < hyatt> :) 03:30 < fantasai> bz: if it's unhappy, blame it on the parser 03:30 <@bz> oh, I see why 03:30 < fantasai> bz: because it's supposed to translate that into 03:30 < glazou> hyatt: just move to Paris, and Cannes will be at 1 hour from your work place ;-) 03:30 < fantasai>
03:30 * bz can't spell 'myrules' 03:30 * bz forgot the 'my' 03:30 < fantasai> heh 03:31 -!- Zeron [user@216.199.55.12] has joined #mozilla 03:31 * fantasai wonders if Tantek would strangle her if she showed up in Cannes XP 03:31 < glazou> fantasai: why ??? 03:31 < glazou> fantasai: I'd love to see you attend our group meeting as an observer 03:31 < fantasai> I am sure my late CSS2.1 comments are exasperating 03:31 < fantasai> I know they're exasperating Hixie 03:32 < fantasai> glazou: I've actually thought about it a bit 03:32 < glazou> fantasai: don't worry ; the HTML WG has a looooong well-known tradition of sending late comments too :-) and that's worse since it's internal to w3c ! 03:32 < glazou> fantasai: the problem is on w3c's side, not yours 03:33 * fantasai of course /wouldn't/ expect to be strangled by anyone at the W3C 03:33 < glazou> you have the right to send comments 03:33 < fantasai> hehe 03:33 < glazou> but W3C does not know how to say "too late for official response", their problem 03:33 < glazou> I am serious 03:33 < glazou> I had the same problem with Selectors comments for CR 03:33 <@bz> so... 03:33 -!- benG5 [benG5@gw.office.mozilla.org] has joined #mozilla 03:33 <@bz> these testcases are treating rules="" as the same thing as "rules not set" 03:33 -!- hyatt is now known as gabrielle 03:33 -!- benG5 is now known as hyatt\ 03:34 * bz kicks them 03:34 -!- hyatt\ is now known as hyatt 03:34 * dmose doesn't even want to know 03:34 -!- gabrielle [gabrielle@gw.office.mozilla.org] has quit [] 03:34 < fantasai> bz: ... 03:34 < fantasai> bz: what exactly is the problem? 03:35 < hyatt> dmose: rheet 03:35 <@dbaron> hyatt: what's gabrielle's IP? 03:36 <@bz>
03:36 <@bz> what should be the rendering? 03:36 * fantasai tries to work out what exactly glazou meant by "W3C does not know... Selectors comments for CR" and guess that he was referring to late internal official-stamped comments 03:36 < hyatt> dbaron: 125 03:36 <@dbaron> hyatt: thanks 03:36 <@bryner> dbaron: there was no name change on the trunk, the tinderboxes should be ok. 03:36 < fantasai> bz: undefined, I think 03:36 <@bz> heh 03:36 <@dbaron> bryner: I'm changing the name of the tinderbox tree. 03:36 <@bz> oh, wait 03:36 <@bryner> oh, ok 03:36 * bz kicks self 03:36 <@bryner> thanks. 03:37 < fantasai> bz should play soccer 03:37 <@bz> the problem is that in the DOM when people do .rules = '' 03:37 <@bz> that sets rules to '' 03:37 <@bz> instead of unsetting it.... 03:37 <@bz> as far as I can tell 03:37 * bz won't worry about that edge case for now 03:39 -!- EliteEagle is now known as Eagle`sl33p 03:41 <@dbaron> hyatt: I'm done 03:41 < hyatt> dbaron: no problem, i'm settled in on the mac now 03:42 -!- bbaetz [~bbaetz@c211-30-0-2.wavrl1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #mozilla 03:43 -!- mcsmurf_away [~mcsmurf@pD95439EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 365 seconds] 03:43 <@bz> bingo! 03:43 <@bz> fantasai: the dynamic testcases work 03:44 < fantasai> bz: cool 03:45 * bz should sleep 03:45 <@bz> css in bug 03:45 <@bz> we should really do border via attr mapping, though 03:45 <@bz> except for its effect on cells 03:45 <@bz> right now that's done via post-reflow callbacks 03:45 <@bz> which is just evil 03:46 < hyatt> why post-reflow? 03:46 <@bz> er, sorry 03:46 <@bz> post-resolve 03:46 < hyatt> right 03:46 <@bz> "evil" 03:46 < hyatt> i was going to say 03:46 < hyatt> safari does it post-resolve 03:46 < hyatt> and then it isn't dynamic 03:46 < hyatt> tee-hee 03:46 <@bz> heh 03:46 < hyatt> it's more like post-frame construction 03:46 -!- PaperTimedOut [Arron@u176147.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #mozilla 03:46 < hyatt> i am working on fixing that right now in fact. 03:46 < hyatt> how odd and eerie 03:47 <@bz> the problem is writing all these rules the would be slow... 03:47 < hyatt> yeah, the mapped attribute stuff is fast 03:47 < hyatt> and it gets hashed and shared by multiple tables 03:47 <@bz> hyatt: http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=140929&action=view 03:47 <@bz> hyatt: see whatcha think of the stylesheet there.... feedback welcome on http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43178 03:48 < fantasai> bz: I don't think rules=all should have outer borders 03:48 <@dbaron> we could also implement it in C++ and have one set of rules per table 03:48 <@dbaron> which would be reasonably fast 03:48 <@dbaron> or even one set of rules per table + attribute combination 03:48 <@dbaron> er, attribute combination 03:49 <@dbaron> or I was thinking of scoped stylesheets hooked in by the rules/frame attributes 03:49 <@dbaron> which would require our improving scoped stylesheets a bit 03:51 -!- Ganesh [~Ganesh@203.145.156.130] has joined #mozilla 03:51 <@bz> dbaron: hmm I'm seeing bug 123355 in my debug build 03:51 <@bz> dbaron: pulled a day or two ago 03:51 <@bz> fantasai: comment in bug? Or post updates? 03:51 * dbaron wonders how CSS style rule implements GetStyleSheet given the style sheet inner stuff 03:51 < fantasai> bz: I haven't time to post updates 03:51 -!- PaperSleep [Arron@t172140.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 365 seconds] 03:52 < fantasai> bz: as it is, I don't think I'm going to sleep much, if at all, tonight 03:52 <@bz> fantasai: ok. 03:52 * bz makes the update 03:53 * fantasai has been working on 4510 all weekend, and now has a CSS2.1 email as well as other non-web related things to take care of for tomorrow 03:53 < fantasai> :/ 03:53 <@bz> :( 03:53 * bz should sleep too.... 03:54 <@bz> dbaron: we clone the sheet when someone tries to access a rule via the dom apis 03:54 <@bz> dbaron: and non-dom people ... well... ;) 03:54 <@bz> dbaron: though we have bugs in the cloning, of course 03:55 <@bz> http://web.mit.edu/bzbarsky/www/testcases/css-weirdness/test.html for example 03:56 * dbaron wonders why nsIStyleRule should have GetStyleSheet is right 03:56 < fantasai> dbaron: was http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2003Mar/0003.html addressed by the WG or do I have to repost it? 03:56 * fantasai notes that this was posted before the last last call 03:56 -!- stianj [stianj@dodge.jordet.nu] has joined #mozilla 03:57 <@dbaron> fantasai: I think mostly... 03:57 <@dbaron> fantasai: I remember discussing the issue, and the eventual resolution was, well, a bit interesting... 03:57 -!- stianj [stianj@dodge.jordet.nu] has quit [Client Quit] 03:58 < fantasai> dbaron: I'm not seeing anything in the last public draft 03:58 <@dbaron> fantasai: no, since then 03:58 < fantasai> dbaron: unless I'm missing it 03:58 < fantasai> dbaron: what was the resolution? 03:58 < hyatt> i thought my proposal was accepted 03:58 < hyatt> for that 03:58 < hyatt> and i sent out wording to the wg 03:58 < hyatt> for changes to the table module 03:58 <@dbaron> we really shouldn't discuss this in public. :-( 03:59 < hyatt> i'm not sure if my changes were ever accepted into the draft though 03:59 -!- sime [~sime@c211-30-245-2.rivrw5.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #mozilla 03:59 < fantasai> dbaron: ok 03:59 <@dbaron> there definitely are changes in the draft relating to the half-in-the-margin stuff 03:59 * dbaron doesn't know who wrote them 03:59 <@bz> dbaron: probably no good reason.... 03:59 < hyatt> fantasai: my proposal was to resolve the top border and bottom border normally and not to go into the margin 03:59 < fantasai> eh? 04:00 <@dbaron> bz: eh? 04:00 < hyatt> fantasai: but for left/right, you computed an initial border by examining the first row of the table 04:00 <@bz> dbaron: nsIStyleRule's GetStyleSheet 04:00 < hyatt> and then spill into the margin if things got bigger in subsequent rows 04:00 * dbaron hopes it's not used for anything important 04:00 * glazou is quite glad he resisted to the *bird requests for Composer 04:00 <@Pavlov> i thought it was cockbird 04:01 < glazou> that's the editor going with pornzilla 04:01 <@bz> firefox????? 04:01 <@Pavlov> lol 04:01 <@bz> dbaron: heh 04:01 -!- stianj [stianj@dodge.jordet.nu] has joined #mozilla 04:01 < glazou> bz: yeah... 04:01 < fantasai> hyatt: what do you mean by "resolve the top border and bottom border normally"? 04:01 <@Pavlov> bz you are so an hour behind 04:01 -!- petern [~chatzilla@segbg.cellnetwork.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.58p [Mozilla rv:1.5/20031007]] 04:01 -!- Hixie [~ianh@ti200710a080-3830.bb.online.no] has joined #mozilla 04:01 < hyatt> fantasai: you actually look at every cell in the top row to compute the top collapsed border for the table 04:01 < glazou> Pavlov: from a mktg, that's very very very confusing for users 04:02 < glazou> mktg pov 04:02 < hyatt> fantasai: and so you never have margin spill 04:02 <@Pavlov> glazou: cockbird? 04:02 < glazou> Pavlov: naaaah; s/firebird/firefox 04:02 < fantasai> hyatt: right.. but where does the extra space come from? 04:02 <@bz> dbaron: it's not, as far as I can tell... just inspector 04:03 < fantasai> hyatt: i.e. which region of the table box 04:03 < fantasai> hyatt: margin, border, padding? 04:03 < hyatt> fantasai: you can think of the table's border width as being 1/2 of the maximum collapsed border 04:03 < fantasai> ok 04:03 < hyatt> so the table gets a border width to account for the largest collapsed border 04:03 < fantasai> and for the sides, you suggested using a first-row heuristic 04:03 < hyatt> exactly 04:03 <@bz> oh, hmmm 04:03 <@bz> and for inline style 04:03 < hyatt> with excess spilling into the table's margins on the left/right 04:03 <@bz> er, not inlin 04:03 < fantasai> hyatt: you know what the problem is with that? 04:03 < hyatt> if a larger collapsed border is encountered on subsequent rows 04:04 <@bz> it's used to go rule -> document, basically 04:04 <@bz> for CSSOM changes to a rule 04:04 < fantasai> hyatt: you're defining the border box to be bigger than the table 04:04 < fantasai> hyatt: so the background will spill out of it like it does in Quirks in Mozilla 04:04 -!- MadMoose [~chatzilla@0x3ef36cc9.virnxx3.adsl.tele.dk] has joined #mozilla 04:04 <@bz> but at that point the sheet had better have been cloned, so we can just use the DOM apis 04:04 < hyatt> fantasai: correct. 04:04 < fantasai> good morning, Hixie 04:04 < hyatt> fantasai: the background of the table could draw outside the cells 04:04 < fantasai> hyatt: that looks *awful* 04:05 -!- bryner [bryner@gw.office.mozilla.org] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:05 < hyatt> fantasai: well, using different border widths is somewhat bizarre anyway 04:05 < fantasai> hyatt: I'd rather have ambiguous wording than that. 04:05 < hyatt> (especially for the outside of the table) 04:05 -!- gabrielle [gabrielle@gw.office.mozilla.org] has joined #mozilla 04:05 < hyatt> it's not like people actually vary border widths along the exterior of the table 04:05 < fantasai> hyatt: oh, really? 04:05 <@bz> hyatt: lol 04:05 -!- Sander [~abuse@203.97.90.154] has quit [Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.] 04:05 < hyatt> so the "collapsei nto the margin" behavior is crazy, since it penalizes the common case 04:06 < fantasai> hyatt: tbody { border: 1px solid } thead {border: 4px solid} 04:06 <@bz> hyatt: you name something the spec allows, and people do it 04:06 < fantasai> hyatt: that makes sense, graphically 04:06 <@bz> hyatt: they do crap the spec does not allow either, but those are easier to wontfix 04:06 < fantasai> hyatt: and it would look messed up if you put a background on it 04:06 < hyatt> anyway, gotta go to dennys 04:06 < hyatt> :) 04:06 -!- hyatt [benG5@gw.office.mozilla.org] has quit [] 04:06 -!- kerz [asdf@gw.office.mozilla.org] has quit [] 04:07 * fantasai mutters that it doesn't "penalize common sense", what on earth does he mean by it