Log for #documentation: 2004-10-17 ---------------------------------- -!- fantasai [fantasai@copper.takiweb.com] has joined #documentation -!- Irssi: #documentation: Total of 4 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal] -!- Irssi: Join to #documentation was synced in 0 secs < WeirdAl> hey fantasai! < WeirdAl> I was hoping to bump into you < fantasai> hey! < fantasai> sorry for replying so late, I didn't notice... * fantasai needs to spend more time on moznet -!- nilson|eat is now known as nilson < WeirdAl> no biggie. I blogged about a new attempt to do Doc Days on Sundays\ < WeirdAl> and bernd roundly criticized me and referred me to devmo for coordination :) * fantasai goes to look < WeirdAl> I figure I'll do a trial run by writing a XTF tutorial :) * fantasai doesn't even know what XTF is < fantasai> It sounds like a good idea to me, < WeirdAl> :) All the more reason to doc it :) New feature, implemented by afri, http://www.croczilla.com/xtf < WeirdAl> basically, implementing XML languages via XPCOM < WeirdAl> but I wanted to set a modest goal < WeirdAl> XTF probably won't be the first goal < fantasai> at this point, what devmo really needs is a list of "documentation that we need to have now" < WeirdAl> and we don't have a clue what we need now < fantasai> well, I don't < fantasai> well, maybe a clue < fantasai> but I don't know it nearly as well as I ought to :)_ * fantasai asked for suggestions on n.p.m.docs but didn't get too much of a response < WeirdAl> I've been asleep, that's all < fantasai> what I'm concerned about is setting up a framework so we can accept documentation without it getting lost in the lack of organization < fantasai> I can organize docs, but I don't know what we need to organize < WeirdAl> :) Wasn't that what I really tried to set up 18 months ago < WeirdAl> ? < fantasai> so I'm having trouble creating an organization scheme :) < fantasai> I think so < fantasai> except you were focusing more on setting up process < WeirdAl> right, some sort of bureaucracy because we didn't have anything at all < fantasai> rather than setting up slots for "need documentation here" < WeirdAl> cart before the horse :) < fantasai> I just posted a bug asking for a READY state in Bugzilla < WeirdAl> :o < fantasai> it's come up in discussions on how to deal with all the bugs we've got < fantasai> and I've been thinking just recently that it would be very useful for documentation efforts < WeirdAl> well, I'll tell you what: I promise not to try to take over docs this time.... moz.zope.org was a huge failure for all of us :) < fantasai> because then we could just post a buglist "here are requests for documentation that have sufficient information about what we need that a random person off the Internet can take over and write the doc, given an understanding of the topic" < WeirdAl> _that_ would be sweet < fantasai> Another problem we have right now is that there's no flag on the doc bugs saying what kind of bug it is < fantasai> there are several kinds < fantasai> - fix minor errors < fantasai> - major rehaul < fantasai> - write new doc < WeirdAl> well, I just generally think bugzilla just isn't the right system to track docs < fantasai> what would you suggest? < WeirdAl> looking around sourceforge for something built for tracking docs < fantasai> hehe < WeirdAl> I am serious. < fantasai> I know < fantasai> I'm about to suggest that you /do/ that and report back to n.p.m.docs < fantasai> :) < WeirdAl> Mozilla Foundation & friends just do not have the right tools < WeirdAl> I probably would. < fantasai> ok, you do that then :) < WeirdAl> you'll see me on n.p.m.docs again < fantasai> sounds good to me :) < fantasai> speaking of tools < WeirdAl> uh oh :) < fantasai> I think that a wiki would be an excellent tool for doc-writing < WeirdAl> don't we already have one? < fantasai> I don't believe that docs should be hosted on a wiki < WeirdAl> ah < fantasai> but I think that it's a great place to work on them < fantasai> start an article < fantasai> and multiple people can work on it at the same time < fantasai> it's easy to do, anyone can help < fantasai> make small or large changes < fantasai> poke it around < fantasai> don't worry about it being scrappy or disorganized at first < fantasai> because this isn't the final product < WeirdAl> run it by our spellchecker bug :) < fantasai> it's just a public workspace < fantasai> checking into CVS is like publishing < WeirdAl> mm hm < fantasai> I have several problems with using CVS as our only webspace thing < fantasai> one is that it's final -- it's not a temporary place to put things up < fantasai> and you need that while you're working on a doc < WeirdAl> mm hm < fantasai> someplace to post it to ask for feedback < WeirdAl> -- did you notice my saveAsFile.js tool? < fantasai> Bugzilla attachments are awkward < fantasai> no < WeirdAl> it's really simple. < fantasai> and putting it on your website.. things just tend to *stay* there < fantasai> plus it's not accessible to others to edit < WeirdAl> You take a textarea's content, edit it on the fly, click a button, and the script dumps it to your hard drive with a content type of app/octet-stream < WeirdAl> the script simply converts the textarea value to a data: URI < WeirdAl> as for accessible... (1) comments to the blog, (2) IRC < fantasai> what would you use it for? < WeirdAl> Doc Day primarily < fantasai> ? < WeirdAl> (1) note taking like a wiki < WeirdAl> (2) polishing into a generic XHTML doc < fantasai> how? < WeirdAl> never mind, I'm getting ahead of myself. < fantasai> btw, we're using HTML 4.01 < fantasai> not XHTML < WeirdAl> ok ok < fantasai> heh < WeirdAl> ... fantasai, let's assume for a moment that we cannot find a docs tool appropriate to our needs. < fantasai> ok < WeirdAl> that we ended up writing one from scratch < fantasai> or would we? < fantasai> we might just combine existing tools < WeirdAl> it would really help me in my search now to have a list of requirements for such a system < fantasai> honestly, I'm not sure < fantasai> I think Bugzilla + wiki would do the job < fantasai> I suppose a system that combined them would be idea < fantasai> l < WeirdAl> half our problem :) and it probably would < fantasai> but would it be worth the extra overhead? < fantasai> we have sysadmins who know Bugzilla inside out < fantasai> but learning a new system takes time < fantasai> and they're all short on time < WeirdAl> here's one problem I see < WeirdAl> -- any sort of automated doc tool needs to be able to read XUL, XBL, JS, C++ (our Mozilla extensions included), RDF... < fantasai> ??? < fantasai> why? < WeirdAl> I specifically mean a tool that autogenerates initial docs w/o human intervention < WeirdAl> like doxygen < WeirdAl> hm, here's something interesting < WeirdAl> http://www.naturaldocs.org/languages.html < fantasai> We already have a JavaDoc commenting convention, no? * WeirdAl shrugs < WeirdAl> does that apply to XML files? < WeirdAl> half our front end is XML in one form or another < fantasai> true < fantasai> that sort of thing is a major change you need to convince developers to make < fantasai> not my area certainly :) < fantasai> oh, and first you'd need to convince the module owners and staff@ < WeirdAl> what sort of major change are you talking about: converting XML to use JavaDoc, or using another tool entirely? < fantasai> converting the C++ files to use ND < WeirdAl> :( I'd be laughed out of the planet < WeirdAl> and that's if they were being charitable < fantasai> *grin* < WeirdAl> ... but it says it supports C++ as a very high priority < fantasai> i guess I'm really understanding what you're proposing < WeirdAl> what I'm proposing is two parts < WeirdAl> (1) automated tools need to be able to read ALL our source code < WeirdAl> (2) human-edited docs need to have some sort of traction < WeirdAl> that's really it < WeirdAl> ... for the XML, we could probably write XSLT stylesheets and apply them to a CVS tree < WeirdAl> ... topic change < WeirdAl> I'm going to attempt some sort of doc day in the near future. Given the tools we have right now, what would you recommend? I heard wiki + Bugzilla, what else? < WeirdAl> Doctor? < fantasai> yeah < fantasai> Doctor is great for handling the "minor errors" category of problems < WeirdAl> agreed < fantasai> "rehaul of existing doc" and "write new doc" should just ignore diffing < fantasai> more or less < WeirdAl> ok < WeirdAl> that makes sense < fantasai> do we have a wiki that we can use for document development? < fantasai> or do we need to set one up? < WeirdAl> dunno < WeirdAl> don't have a clue < WeirdAl> #mozwebtools ? < fantasai> the only one I've heard of is the mozillazine one < WeirdAl> :/ < WeirdAl> I don't use mz that much, aside from writing my blog < fantasai> what we need wrt the wiki besides standard editing of articles < fantasai> is a) linking it to a bug report < fantasai> b) redirecting to the competed document once its done < fantasai> so that we can move the doc from the wiki < fantasai> but not break links that decide an in-progress doc is better than none :) < WeirdAl> that makes a hell of a lot of sense :) < fantasai> lol < WeirdAl> write that down :) < WeirdAl> boss < fantasai> erk < fantasai> yessir < WeirdAl> :-D < WeirdAl> ) < WeirdAl> 8-) < fantasai> yeah, talking to me is good. If nobody talks to me, I forget to think about this stuff < fantasai> ^^;; < WeirdAl> well, if no one talks to me, I make a dman fool of myself < fantasai> lol < WeirdAl> Can you point me to this MozillaZine wiki? < fantasai> http://kb.mozillazine.org/ < fantasai> Another thing we need to be able to do wrt bugs is to categorize them by skillset < WeirdAl> knowledge base, figures < fantasai> general problem with bugs in Mozilla, not just docs < WeirdAl> you lost me * WeirdAl wonders if we can just use the mz wiki < WeirdAl> ... in other words, why reinvent the wheel? Have DD converge on kb < fantasai> sure < fantasai> wrt skillsets < fantasai> if someone's looking for something to work on < fantasai> and they know XUL but not C++, < WeirdAl> like me :) < fantasai> then if we have the bugs flagged so they can restrict their search to bugs that /don't/ require C++ hacking < WeirdAl> ahhh < fantasai> then finding a good bug to work on would be easier < fantasai> same applies to docs < WeirdAl> maybe components within the doc product < fantasai> if a person knows Perl, then he can work on stuff that a person who doesn't know perl can't < fantasai> and may want to specifically /look/ for bugs that require Perl < fantasai> because of that or (more likely) because he likes working in Perl < WeirdAl> fantasai: we have three components for docs in Bugzilla, and I think they are pretty useless < fantasai> I think I agree < fantasai> hehehe < WeirdAl> maybe we should just reorg the components into language specialties < fantasai> I don't think that would work too well < WeirdAl> :(] < fantasai> because there are so many ways docs cross language boundaries < WeirdAl> docs outside source code, yes... docs on source code, no < fantasai> true < WeirdAl> ... what about one set of cats for source code docs, another set for other levels of docs < fantasai> that might work < WeirdAl> no reason we need to restrict how many categories we have within documentation product < fantasai> ... < fantasai> it would be nice if we could bind a "documentation" component to each component in mozilla < WeirdAl> to each component? < WeirdAl> or to each product? < fantasai> each product would be sufficient once the component reorganization takes effect < WeirdAl> ... I'm thinking neither would work < fantasai> for source code level docs < WeirdAl> :/ Hard to know what's going to be the state of affairs post-bmo reorg < WeirdAl> meaning I don't see it * WeirdAl kicks nilson: op fantasai < fantasai> hey, it's ok < fantasai> I'm not as permanent a member of this channel < fantasai> and once I leave and come back, the setting's gone < WeirdAl> ... well I wish I had a clearer version of the future <@nilson> huh> -!- mode/#documentation [+oo WeirdAl fantasai] by nilson <@WeirdAl> fantasai: all I can say is: we really need to talk about this more :) <@WeirdAl> ... but I do like the idea of using kb.mz.o for the first Doc Day <@fantasai> yeah, add docs to kb, then file bugs on moving them to m.o (and make sure I'm cc'ed so I can assign them a URI) <@WeirdAl> sounds like a winner <@fantasai> http://kb.mozillazine.org/index.phtml?title=Intro_:_Comparison <@fantasai> this is awesome <@fantasai> that's the sort of stuff that should be on mozilla.org <@fantasai> but isn't due to marketing constraints <@fantasai> another problem that needs solving :) <@WeirdAl> hehe it's out of date... FF is 1.0 PR1 <@WeirdAl> marketing? <@fantasai> http://kb.mozillazine.org/index.phtml?title=Intro_:_Summary <@fantasai> well, this more accurately <@fantasai> demonstrates the problem <@fantasai> it's not targetted at downloaders <@WeirdAl> we should combine those two <@fantasai> it's targetted at people really interested in the *project* <@fantasai> hmm <@fantasai> yeah <@fantasai> we should <@fantasai> mozilla.org has lost it's community focus <@fantasai> it's all about the product right now <@fantasai> which I guess is what end-users expect <@fantasai> we're presenting ourselves the way a company would, not the way an open source project would <@WeirdAl> when we lost Netscape, everything went to hell, and it still hasn't really recovered <@fantasai> it'll be better, though, when it does :) -!- kerz [kerz@craptastic.org] has joined #documentation <@fantasai> kerz! < kerz mmhmm? <@WeirdAl> hey, kerz, wanted to get your contribution of input here <@fantasai> we were just talking about kb.mz.o < kerz ok <@nilson> kerzy <@fantasai> <@WeirdAl> basically, the thinking now is that in a couple weeks, I'm going to run a Doc Day on a weekend, aimed at writing one draft doc for kb, for later porting by fantasai to m.o <@WeirdAl> (sorry, I had to type that all out) <@fantasai> ah <@nilson> fantasai, that's exactly how I feel as well. <@fantasai> nilson: what is? <@nilson> fantasai, about the whole product/project thing <@fantasai> :) * fantasai should blog about it <@fantasai> I need to take notes on this whole conversation <@fantasai> heh <@WeirdAl> kerz: we're wondering what the mz opinion would be <@nilson> I haven't even been here for most of it :-/ < kerz sorry, not following <@WeirdAl> fantasai: I can copy the whole text and e-mail you if you want it < kerz doc day for what? <@fantasai> WeirdAl: I have a logfile, so no worries <@WeirdAl> kerz: just an all-day event to help us get better docs on mozilla.org < kerz ok <@WeirdAl> starting small, picking one area and doc'ing it < kerz just submit something and give me a poke and i can post it <@WeirdAl> kerz: so if you see a heavy load on kb.mz on a Sunday, don't panic :) < kerz ok <@WeirdAl> if mz staff have any suggestions for us on such an event, we'd love to hear them <@WeirdAl> after all, it is your wiki <@WeirdAl> not "ours" as docs enthusiasts < kerz talk to hao2lian and Chewie[] < kerz they're running most of that stuff these days <@WeirdAl> dunno them < kerz they're on irc <@WeirdAl> I see hao < kerz yeah, no chewie <@WeirdAl> ok -- fantasai, I am beginning to think we should pause while you take the log, and clean it up for us into a blog entry <@fantasai> now? <@nilson> I need to read it. I've missed it al <@nilson> all* <@fantasai> oh <@fantasai> hah <@fantasai> I'll just post the logfile for ya then :) <@WeirdAl> well, otherwise, I'm going to ramble until the cows come home <@WeirdAl> bad idea :) <@WeirdAl> better to clean it up, I think <@nilson> I have a logfile <@nilson> just.. <@nilson> I'll give you a dollar <@fantasai> WeirdAl: it takes me awhile to write <@fantasai> nilson: I can try to summarize points right now, just into the IRC channel <@nilson> that's fine <@WeirdAl> hehe <@WeirdAl> summary of points is fine for me too * nilson goes to get a cookie <@fantasai> :D <@WeirdAl> really, a summary on your blog will do just fine <@fantasai> WeirdAl: whatever. if I write a blog post, it will take hours <@fantasai> ok <@fantasai> summary as follows * fantasai is scanning off less <@fantasai> WeirdAl posts blog entry about Doc Days * WeirdAl wonders how a short blog can take hours <@fantasai> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/weirdal/archives/006711.html <@fantasai> WeirdAl: like I said, I'm a slow writer <@WeirdAl> :p <@nilson> How did you guys get blog on Mozillazine? <@WeirdAl> nilson: I asked kerz <@nilson> oh.. * WeirdAl shuts up for the summary * fantasai didn't, but Alex decided to link hers for some reason <@WeirdAl> I did? <@fantasai> no, Alex Bishop :) <@WeirdAl> oh * WeirdAl shuts up for real <@fantasai> hehehehe <@fantasai> fantasai notes concerns with not having a good idea of what documentation needs to be written <@fantasai> and therefore not a good idea of how it should be organized <@WeirdAl> (roadmap bug) <@fantasai> fantasai filed bug against Bugzilla for a READY state <@fantasai> which Hixie requests for handling regular bugs <@fantasai> (state represents bug ready to be tackled - specs, testcases, description, etc. all good) <@WeirdAl> checkins? :) <@fantasai> would be useful for docs as well - this request has enough info that random person wanting to help will know what to do <@fantasai> another problem with doc bug triage: <@fantasai> no flag to distinguish <@fantasai> - fix minor errors <@fantasai> - major rehaul <@fantasai> - write new doc <@fantasai> different kinds of bugs <@fantasai> people searching for one often don't want to look at unfiltered list including others <@fantasai> WeirdAl considers documentation-specific issue tracker <@fantasai> fantasai suggests that Bugzilla+wiki+doctor would probably be sufficient <@fantasai> and has less overhead <@WeirdAl> weirdal agrees <@fantasai> fantasai notes: <@nilson> (bmo or hosted elsewhere?) <@fantasai> I don't believe that [mozilla.org] docs should be hosted on a wiki <@fantasai> but I think that it's a great place to work on them <@fantasai> start an article <@fantasai> and multiple people can work on it at the same time <@fantasai> it's easy to do, anyone can help, make small/large changes, poke it around <@nilson> WiKi docs--that's a wonderful idea. Never thought of it <@fantasai> and not worrya bout it being scrappy or disorganized at first <@fantasai> -- like a public workspace <@fantasai> CVS checkin is like publishing <@nilson> sure. <@nilson> nice <@fantasai> current workarounds are a) use your own webspace b) use bugzilla attachments c) checkin to mozilla.org prematurely <@fantasai> none is good :) <@nilson> So you were proposing to use kb.mz.o? <@fantasai> weirdal looks around web, notes existance of www.naturaldocs.org <@fantasai> yes <@fantasai> points out that auto-generated docs don't handle XUL etc <@fantasai> - <@WeirdAl> (I should note that my thinking at the time was on the level of source-code docs) <@fantasai> Doctor is great for handling "minor errors" category of problems <@fantasai> "rehaul of existing docs" and "write new doc" should ignore diffing <@fantasai> would be useful to have wiki for document development <@fantasai> we look at kb <@fantasai> wrt wiki, would need (besides standard editing of articles) <@fantasai> a) linking wiki article to bug report (URL field of bugzilla?) <@fantasai> b) redirecting to completed document once its done <@fantasai> so can move doc from wiki to moz.org <@fantasai> but not break links that decide in-progress doc is better than none <@fantasai> - <@nilson> (On the WiKi.. This would have all documentation or new documentation? How would we handle XML docs such as for Firefox? Would the wiki use a modified backend to use XML and not automatically markup into HTML? What?) <@fantasai> wrt bug triage, need to categorize by skillset <@WeirdAl> nilson: will get back to that later <@nilson> Okay. <@fantasai> someone looking for something to work on may know XUL but not C++ <@fantasai> so being able to restrict search to bugs that don't require C++ would be good <@fantasai> someone knowing Perl might want to restrict search to bugs that /do/ require Perl <@fantasai> etc. <@fantasai> applies for documentation too <@fantasai> weirdal notes that the tree components for docs in bugzilla are mostly useless <@fantasai> consider various reorganizations, nothing conclusive <@fantasai> fantasai pulls up kb summary of mozilla products <@fantasai> http://kb.mozillazine.org/index.phtml?title=Intro_:_Summary <@fantasai> points out that there is lots of useful info there <@fantasai> but it's targetted at people interested in mozilla project <@fantasai> not downloaders <@fantasai> whereas mozilla.org's products page is exact opposite <@fantasai> seems to be generic problem with mozilla.org - site has lost its community focus <@fantasai> kerz joins <@fantasai> end summary <@nilson> Alright. <@nilson> thanks for the summary <@fantasai> whew <@fantasai> np <@WeirdAl> mind if I just cut & paste to a blog entry? <@fantasai> go ahead <@WeirdAl> good summary <@fantasai> I'll probably be writing something more coherent later <@fantasai> :) * nilson would if he had a mozblog. My only blog is personal. <@fantasai> mine's a combination. And it's very low frequency and usually updated 2 weeks after whatever <@WeirdAl> I write when I feel like it * fantasai nods <@fantasai> anyway <@fantasai> let's look at nilson's questions <@fantasai> <@nilson> (On the WiKi.. This would have all documentation or new <@fantasai> documentation? How would we handle XML docs such as for <@fantasai> Firefox? Would the wiki use a modified backend to use XML <@fantasai> and not automatically markup into HTML? What?) <@nilson> Shoudl I clarify this? <@fantasai> sure, go ahead <@WeirdAl> I'm going to cut a couple lines, if you don't mind -- I don't want to critique the m.o site <@fantasai> hehehe <@fantasai> I'll do that myself, then <@fantasai> ;) <@fantasai> feel free to edit <@fantasai> that was very rough notes <@nilson> Okay. We all know that the documentation has its own markup style, and that Firefox uses XHTML right now (still unsure of when/if it'll change to docbook). Wikis that I've seen don't really allow source- level editing, but rather throw text into their own markup. How would we handle this? Just spend a few minutes putting the doc into the documentation format? <@fantasai> nilson: are you talking about FF help files or on-site documentation/ <@fantasai> ? <@nilson> The docs on the wiki--will we write those in plaintext in a wiki editor thingie, or just use the original documentation markup? <@nilson> that's really my question <@WeirdAl> hm <@nilson> Most wikis have a form for writing text in, then the software puts that into markup. * WeirdAl doesn't know what kb.mz.o supports in its wiki editing <@nilson> I want to know how we will handle documentation-specific markup. <@WeirdAl> :( we have to be logged in <@nilson> I don't even have a kb account <@WeirdAl> nor do I... tonight <@WeirdAl> posting blog <@nilson> If the need arises, I have plenty of space (although somewhat limited bandwidth) on alvania.net. <@nilson> PHP/MySQL <@WeirdAl> bandwidth is more important here, I think <@fantasai> ok, so add to notes: wiki needs to allow direct editing of markup <@WeirdAl> especially for Doc Days <@nilson> alvania.net has a 256kbps upstream. <@nilson> that's oo limited, I think. <@fantasai> ah, come on WeirdAl - how much bandwidth can 20 people viewing text use up? <@nilson> too* <@WeirdAl> :/ <@fantasai> look, for now, any sort of wiki will do <@WeirdAl> posted <@fantasai> we don't expect a large volume of incoming docs in the next couple months, do we? <@nilson> One second, I have site where you can test many CMSes <@WeirdAl> not really <@fantasai> we can just use the wiki format -- the important thing is the content <@fantasai> and then tweak the markup later <@nilson> okay, but if it really gets big, that'll become a big overhead. <@fantasai> right <@fantasai> which is why meanwhile, we may need to find/set up a wiki dedicated to being document development scratchspace <@fantasai> and I'm sure mozilla.org could host it <@nilson> http://www.opensourcecms.com/ <@WeirdAl> tell me what I need to change/edit <@nilson> so we can find an appropriate wiki <@fantasai> s/\t/: /g; <@fantasai> (to weirdal) <@nilson> heh <@WeirdAl> ? <@fantasai> your blog entry <@nilson> change the space to ": " recursively <@fantasai> you've got lots of tabs, they're collapsing to spaces <@fantasai> and it's not very readable <@nilson> make it easier to read <@WeirdAl> oh... <@fantasai> :) <@nilson> or come up with some weird regex to take the first word and fix it up <@nilson> meh, it's okay <@fantasai> just look for tabs, it's easier <@fantasai> :) <@fantasai> anyway, whatever wiki we want to set up <@nilson> I can host it I guess <@fantasai> it need to be simple <@nilson> alvania.net/mozwebdocs or something :) <@fantasai> focused on being a wiki is a good way to achieve that <@nilson> have a look at http://www.opensourcecms.com/ * fantasai looking <@nilson> wikipedia uses MediaWiki <@WeirdAl> fixed <@nilson> let me set up MediaWiki real quick <@nilson> http://alvania.net/mozwebdocs/index.php/Main_Page <@WeirdAl> :( at least initially I want to work with the quasi-infrastructure we have now <@nilson> okay <@nilson> just set that up incase we need it you know <@WeirdAl> right <@WeirdAl> we might yet :) <@WeirdAl> nothing, _nothing_ is cast in stone <@WeirdAl> is docbot set up to log this channel somewhere? <@WeirdAl> that would make analysis easier later on <@WeirdAl> for all <@nilson> I think Hendikins has logs of the channel. <@WeirdAl> Hendikins isn't here :) <@nilson> I have logs of everything pretty much though. <@nilson> Hendikins owns docbot <@WeirdAl> ah <@WeirdAl> ok <@WeirdAl> -- I was looking for a 24/7 log <@nilson> I'm almost always here, but ask Hendikins * nilson goes to eat more cookies <@nilson> chewie's here now btw <@WeirdAl> hehe I'm brainfried now <@nilson> I have been all day, don't feel bad <@WeirdAl> brainfried enough where I shouldv'e invited hao <@nilson> You did invite em <@WeirdAl> no, I did not <@nilson> ohh <@nilson> I thought you said "shoudl not have" <@fantasai> nilson: I have complete a complete log of this conversation. I'll put it up somewhere. <@WeirdAl> `:( <@WeirdAl> 8-) <@fantasai> anyway, I should go now. Post comments to n.p.m.docs! or if you're blogging, post a link in n.p.m.docs <@fantasai> Not everyone trackes everyone else's blog <@WeirdAl> later * WeirdAl will subscribe to n.p.m.docs @home <@fantasai> k * fantasai needs to go too <@fantasai> ttyl~